First: I really appreciate the care that you're taking with this. I'm still trying to make up my mind on some things, but where I stand right now: I believe that you're correct to be worried about an asymmetric effect on white and poc/chromatic members of the comm, but I'd be wary about a comm policy that required others to racially identify themselves.
I think what constitutes a personal insult is at times dependent on context, and that a lot of times someone calling out hierarchy-enforcing language or action is taken to be personally insulting. I agree with Trinker's statement here (http://50books-poc.livejournal.com/373367.html?thread=1286007#t1286007), and I'd like for there to be room for such critiques in this comm.
That said, and accounting for the way hierarchies affect our perception, I still prefer personal insults (which I view as distinct from pointing out that a text or action is racist/sexist/etc) be kept out of discussion forums, whether they are directed at the author or another comm member.
As to personal insults directed at the author specifically: While the difference between attacking the racism and sexism (and other isms) in a text, and personally attacking the author herself, might seem blurry at times, I think when Winterfox called Cindy Pon a "stupid fuck" with "no talent at anything whatsoever" (http://50books-poc.livejournal.com/373367.html), she had shifted to doing the latter. And it was a shift I was uncomfortable with, especially considering that Cindy Pon is a woc. It brought to mind a resonances to how race and gender hierarchies ensure that, as woc, we have to constantly prove that we are worthy of being treated with respect, to how we are often personally attacked when we say or do something that others disagree with (and by this I mean, not just having our words and actions attacked -- which might or might not be warranted -- but attacking our intrinsic worth as human beings, as deserving the least modicum of respect).
For this reason, I'm glad that Winterfox seems to have edited her post to remove the quoted statements, and I'd prefer there to be some mod policy against personal insults toward authors as well as other members of the comm.
(And I will stop editing & reposting this now! I think.)
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2011-07-01 03:11 am (UTC)I think what constitutes a personal insult is at times dependent on context, and that a lot of times someone calling out hierarchy-enforcing language or action is taken to be personally insulting. I agree with Trinker's statement here (http://50books-poc.livejournal.com/373367.html?thread=1286007#t1286007), and I'd like for there to be room for such critiques in this comm.
That said, and accounting for the way hierarchies affect our perception, I still prefer personal insults (which I view as distinct from pointing out that a text or action is racist/sexist/etc) be kept out of discussion forums, whether they are directed at the author or another comm member.
As to personal insults directed at the author specifically: While the difference between attacking the racism and sexism (and other isms) in a text, and personally attacking the author herself, might seem blurry at times, I think when Winterfox called Cindy Pon a "stupid fuck" with "no talent at anything whatsoever" (http://50books-poc.livejournal.com/373367.html), she had shifted to doing the latter. And it was a shift I was uncomfortable with, especially considering that Cindy Pon is a woc. It brought to mind a resonances to how race and gender hierarchies ensure that, as woc, we have to constantly prove that we are worthy of being treated with respect, to how we are often personally attacked when we say or do something that others disagree with (and by this I mean, not just having our words and actions attacked -- which might or might not be warranted -- but attacking our intrinsic worth as human beings, as deserving the least modicum of respect).
For this reason, I'm glad that Winterfox seems to have edited her post to remove the quoted statements, and I'd prefer there to be some mod policy against personal insults toward authors as well as other members of the comm.
(And I will stop editing & reposting this now! I think.)